Thread: The Transition from Mana to Focus

[Lassirra]

As most are aware, Hunters will be switching from mana to focus as their primary resource in Cataclysm. Obviously this will have a ton of far-reaching implications on the class and how it's played.

We'll have to transition away from Intellect on gear since it will no longer be a useful stat to us - is this something Blizzard will completely remove from physical DPS Mail items for us automatically or will we need to differentiate between gear intended for Hunters or Enhancement Shaman based on a distinction of "Has Intellect" vs "Doesn't Have Intellect"?

How will our talents change as a result of the switch? For example, what will happen to Careful Aim? Will it simply be removed (and if so, how will we make up for the loss of Attack Power we currently get from this talent) or will it be revamped to interact with focus instead? Also, will we still have talents that increase our focus/mana regeneration, or will these become obsolete and leave gaping holes in our talent trees that will need to be filled by new talents?

How will our rotations and priorities change as a result of the switch? It's been said that focus will behave similarly to a Rogue's energy or our pets' own focus, in that we'll have a pool of 100 focus to draw from that will automatically regenerate periodically. Unlike Rogues, focus attacks will not establish combo points and we'll not be using finishers. How will all of this affect our rotations, and how will focus costs for our existing abilities be determined?

Thoughts, speculation? Discuss.

Firstly: I welcome the change. I have always been tired of having a mana-pool to manage, and using aspect of the viper always made me feel like I was "betraying" my group. I don't like the fact that hunters are now going "dumb", but well, that is another story

One way of overcoming the gaps that could occour in the talent-trees involving mana or intellect could be talents improving our focus generation. From what I have heard, shots should cost either 30 or 60 focus points, and from my point of view, it seems that our focus-pool will run out rather quickly? So having a passive boost on focus-regen could be one way to fill out talent-gaps.

As of the rotation: As steady shot will improve our focus-regen, I think that we will be using that alot more, than I know I do now, at least. That could affect our priority list, but I think that the impact will depend a lot of how high our focus-regen is "on the rocks" (:P).

Anybody has some numbers?

[Lassirra]

I don't think any numbers have been announced for anything yet, so most of the discussion is going to be pure speculation until more is known about the upcoming expansion. Blizzard's been decidedly mum about it since BlizzCon, which is understandable. I'm sure they don't want to make any announcements before they've had a chance to actually suss out what the heck they want to do with us.

My best guess for how our shots will convert is that it will be based on mana cost of the shot compared to our total mana pool converted to an equivalent percentage of focus use, but who can say for sure? If we were to run with that idea, though, let's look at a couple common shots used across specs.

• Serpent Sting - 9% of base mana
• Steady Shot - 5% of base mana
• Kill Shot - 7% of base mana

So assuming those mana percentages are converted directly to focus use, since we'll have a focus pool of 100, it's easy to see how each will convert over: Serpent Sting, 9 focus; Steady Shot, 5 focus; Kill Shot, 7 focus; etc.

Given that, as an example, we would be able to fire Steady Shot 20 times before running out of focus, possibly more depending on the rate at which focus regenerates while "casting". Assuming you have 5500 RAP, Steady Shot deals roughly 900 damage. That would give us 18,000 damage per 100 focus.

I'm unfamiliar with Rogue theorycraft, so it's difficult to gauge if that's good or bad. It strikes me as a very high number, though. And of course, it doesn't take into consideration factors like how quickly focus regenerates - it assumes a finite pool of 100 only.

Also, this is all pure conjecture. As you suggested, our shots could end up converting differently and costing more focus.

What I find particularly interesting and potentially confusing at first will be the fact that, because we won't have finishers like Rogues, it'll be challenging to determine what the best rotation order will be. Will it come down to simply using shots that have the best focus to damage ratio? Or are they planning on adding new effects to old shots that will make us what to use them in a specific order regardless of focus cost, making timing or cooldown management more critical?

Honestly, everything we thought we knew about the class is going to change. It's a daunting prospect with so little information available so far.

I really, really hope that our shot rotation doesn't come down to just using the best damage/focus ratio. I think that so far, hunters have a rather damaged reputation of only needing to think minimally when choosing which shot to be fired. Not that this is necisarrily true, but complexity always makes games more fun Besides, I can't imagine Blizzard being willing to make it that easy to play (and yes, that was a threat, Blizzard!)

[Lassirra]

Well, when you think about it, simplified shot rotations are not unheard of. There is a precedent for it. There was a time when the best thing to do was Steady, Steady, Steady, Arcane, rinse and repeat, and things aren't all that much more complicated than that now when you think about it. The only real challenge in shot rotations these days is SV hunters watching for LnL procs. With that in mind, it's entirely possible that our shot rotations will boil down to focus:damage.

The good news is that it doesn't seem like that's the way they intend to go with it. Some quotes from Ghostcrawler on the subject:

I said ignore the finishers, so that removes Rip and FB. You are left with a bleed (Rake), a bleed buffer (Mangle), a damage buff (SR) and then the actual attack, Shred. Someone unfamiliar with kitties might say “Oh I’ll just use all my energy on Shred, because it does the most dps” the way someone unfamiliar with focus-based hunters might say “Oh I’ll just use all my focus on Chimera / Explosive once they aren’t on cooldowns.” Our plan is to make the rotation have more depth than that. It won’t be at the Feral level of complexity without cps and finishers and because hunters have other things to manage, like Fluffy.
------
Sorry, I meant if we remove the cooldown from those shots then someone might jump to the conclusion that hunters will just spam them. I don’t know if we will be able to remove the cooldown or not. Shred does not have a cooldown yet Ferals use many other abilities. That is one way to go. Another is to keep a small cooldown, but in general we think focus will let us take cooldowns off a lot of hunter abilities since the income rate of focus will help us balance the costs.

In general (and with many exceptions) you can’t balance mana-using spells around cost since casters have nearly unlimited mana at any point in time and certainly early on in a fight. Energy (and focus, and rage to a much lesser extent to where it’s actually a problem) are limited at any given moment but come back pretty quickly. Mana-spells have to be balanced around cast times and cooldowns instead. Hunters generally lack cast times, so most abilities have cooldowns which lead to annoying collisions and a lot of timer-watching. Focus should help improve that. We hope!
------
The difference is whether the priority is based on “I do more damage if I do X first because of synergy with Y” or priority based on “X is on cooldown.” Too many cooldowns can get annoying. Just ask any hunter or Ret paladin.

I was describing a rotation that could evolve if the focus model was as simple as just using your best attack and nothing else. I don’t think hunters do that today. However, we also think the hunter rotation could be more fun than it is today. You may not agree, and that’s cool, but I’m sure you can tell from reading this thread that a lot of hunters do. WoW is blessed with a large player base so it’s unlikely we will ever get 100% consensus on any game change. We have to make the decisions we think are best for the game and try to make those decisions informed ones based on the experiences players are having. We don’t make changes like this arbitrarily, because among other things, it’s a lot of work.
------
It’s impossible (or at least not logical) to make the assumption that hunters will do less damage than rogues given the very little information you have available. A lot of what makes rogue gameplay interesting isn’t the base mechanics but the way their talents affect their energy flow. You have to imagine hunter mechanics that are similar to Adrenaline Rush, Dirty Deeds, Focused Attacks, etc.

I keep going back to the Feral druid, because that rotation would still be fairly interesting if Mangle, Rake, Shred and Savage Roar were the only usable buttons. Imagine hunters had Mangle Shot, Rake Shot, Shred Shot and Savage Roar Shot. Now toss in Hunter’s Mark, Kill Command, Bestial Wrath, Lock and Load and similar talents and abilities.

I know change can be scary, but we’re convinced this is a good change. It will finally make hunters feel like a weapon-based class instead of a dps caster like mages or locks.

[Fluffywumpki]

I'm still really uncertain how I'm going to react to this change. I can't recall where, but I seem to remember that at one point, they tossed out the following tidbits (keeping in mind that this was at least a month or two ago):
Haste (as we know it now) would convert to a Focus regeneration stat
Focus Regeneration will have a base of 6/second, jumping to 12/sec if Steady Shot is being used

Thinking on this now, if anything, it feels like it will be incentivizing shot priority twisting (for example, Chimera Steady Steady Aimed Steady Steady) over the standard priority rotation of Chimera Aimed Steady x4/5. (to be clear, the reason I, as Marksman, stagger that is to maximize Improved Steady Shot procs. In theory, I should be able to consume the proc more often over the course of a boss fight by doing so than by waiting through the full cooldown cycle for Chimera shot.)

[Lassirra]

I have also heard that Haste would convert to focus regen, though I can't remember now where I read that. It might have been on WoWWiki.

With so little concrete information available, I have to admit that my mind is reeling somewhat with all the possibilities. For one, I'm really concerned about how our talents will convert. I'm hoping we don't end up short-changed on AP without Careful Aim. With all the changes coming, I suspect we'll probably be pretty broken or OP for the first part of Cataclysm until the first big content patch hits.

I am excited about the fact that we'll be changing so drastically, though. There will be a lot of re-learning and adjusting to do.

I'll be glad when we have some actual data to work with. I'm very interested in what the focus costs of our shots will be, as that will certainly play a role in our rotation choices.